KCBS in Texas

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RangerJ
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KCBS in Texas

Postby RangerJ » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:04 am

Posted this on another forum as well, but not everyone frequents every board, so thought I'd look for feedback here also.


For those that don't know, I moved back to Texas last year from Arizona. I started competing in Arizona in 2009. The first event was actually IBCA sanctioned but did include pork butt so there were 4 meats.

The majority of my cooks then moved to KCBS in Arizona, California or Nevada. You don't have as many cooks in most states as there in Texas on the weekends.

Since being back, in the last 11 months, I've cooked 6 IBCA, 1 Gulf Coast and 2 KCBS. I will probably cook 2 more contests before years end, either IBCA or Gulf Coast. So, its not like I'm not out cooking the local sanctioning bodies. I don't complain about judges, I know I'm inconsistent and I'm still chasing that first GC or RGC. I appreciate the fact that there are folks who take the time to organize, judge and generally provide some type of structure to the events.

All that being said, I remain partial to the KCBS judging and the money associated with their events. Even if I don't win much of it, at least I know, should I put everything together the pay out will be nice. It also allows me to have some data points to find out, over time, if its me or those judges who don't know good que!

The only other organization I've cooked that provides that is Florida ( FBA).

With the recent Sam's run through the state, I'm curious as to how many folks here would be receptive if KCBS tried to put on more events in Texas? Please, leave the "its a meat contest, not a garnish contest" out of it, their rules are what they are. By the way, FBA turn in boxes look like IBCA, but you get the computerized results like KCBS.

Have they tried to in the past and been unsuccessful? I've cooked the Labor Day event in Bedford two years in a row and its growing in size and level of competition.

I drank many a beer at cook offs growing up here, before I went in to the Army but never paid much attention to scoring / judging, etc. Now that I compete, I'm just curious as to why their presence is so small in this state?

Hopefully, all you Texas BBQ veterans can get me up to speed.
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby Gator » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:46 am

***I'm going to let this post stand with a warning that this is not a thread to "run-down" different BBQ organizations. I don't think that is the intention, so lets stay on track here - its a worthy topic.

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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby ezbbq » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:22 pm

I like the KCBS scoring system. I also like the quick turn-in times. I'm not crazy about the garnish, but it is a must if your gonna play by their rules. I also like the fact that KCBS allows the use of sauce like they do and allows for different presentations in the box.

I like the costs of most Texas contests. A $200-$300 entry would limit the number of contests we compete in each year. Of the 3 or 4 major sanctioning bodies in Texas, I believe the first that adopts a KCBS style judging and scoring system would become the premier sanctioning body in the state. I know I would tend to lean toward that type of organization.

My 2cents worth.
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby 3 star redneck » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:27 pm

I agree 100% with larry, I think the KCBS scoring system is the best used in the US...I would like to cook more of these events but they are normally to far mto drive to. I also think that KCBS will never have a very strong presence in texas because of the long rooted rivalry between Texas q and the other styles of q.....I really like the scoring sheets that you recieve at the end of the cook.....Good or bad they are very useful info for evrey cook to see where he stand in the crowd......the garnish is no prob once you practice a few times.....

great topic Wes....... :cheers:
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby TXLNGHRN » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:48 pm

I think it would be great if IBCA or LSBS adopted the scoring system. It would really help those of us who are just starting out to get more consistent and get real feedback on what we did wrong and far off we actually were.
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby Bigoar » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:55 pm

Why couldn't they print out the scores? Most of the cookoffs I go to the judges have a computer program to figure the results anyway.
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby js-tx » Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:47 pm

I think I would appreciate the comment cards used in KCBS but if that style of judging translates to less events to pick from (i.e harder to organize) and increased entry fees.. no thanks. I wonder how people in TX would respond to having to take a paid class to get bbq judge certified? Would this eliminate a BBQ team from sending half an army to go judge their Q? I've seen this once before in my limited experience with bbq comps.
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby 3 star redneck » Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:47 pm

I dont mind the higher entry fees if the percentage of payback is higher, and the payout goes 10-15 deep in every category.....paying the top 3 is getting very old....and it frustrates young comp cooks.....I wish we had certified judges...that removes alot of people judging our events that are just there to have lunch....
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby RangerJ » Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:57 pm

Lets talk about those higher fees for one second, since it has come up.

Every KCBS event I've ever competed in ( I know I'm a cherry, its only like 10), for those same fees provided water, power ( perhaps not RV power, but power) and a higher pay out.

Now, the other side of the coin is this,I like the fact that there are events in Texas that don't break the bank for the beginner. For $100.00, you can pretty much cook an event every weekend. But, toss some success into the mix and even with my middle of the pack standings, I'm chasing $$$. Add, power, (I don't have a generator), water to my site, trash pick up, ash cans ( yep, most of the KCBS events have it) and provide me with feedback, regardless of where I finish and suddenly, the extra dollars to sign up are worth it.

In Arizona, when I started, the event was IBCA sanctioned, but was the only game in town. It had, Power, water and a large pot ( at least 10k) that paid down to 5 per meat, money for top 3, RGC and GC and - trophies to 10. I'm pretty confident the entry fee was $300.00. Steep, yes, but i was making good money at the time and could care less. I got spoiled to water, power and something for a cooker if he made it to top 10 besides just a walk. Sorry, I Rambled for a bit...

With regards to the judges and paying money, our state did pretty well with 3 KCBS events in Texas this year. We had quite a few folks pay and sign up. Sadly, I hear we did not meet 100% at the locals,(which OBVIOUSLY explains my 12th place, not advancing position) but we did meet that number at the regional. And "sending an Army to judge", I don't mean to be rude but give me a break. I'd bet money 90% of folks can't tell their cooks meat from another.

Anyway, all good discussion points and I'll be out there regardless of who is sanctioning because I like to cook. I've just been curious as to why KCBS does not do more here in the Lone Star State.
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby 3 star redneck » Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:48 pm

Agreed....and Ill be parked close...cooking just like you.....
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby jtilk » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:00 pm

I agree with the point made about the scorecard/ comment card... I cant tell you how many times I have wanted to know how I did in a category (especially when first starting out) and had no clue cause they olny called the top 5 out of 30 or something or that nature.

This may not apply to everyone, but I can say that alot of the cookoffs I attend down this way are also big parties for some, Friday night it's all about drinkin' and entertaining, while Saturday is about the competition. While increasing the entry fee may increase the pay out, I think it would eliminate the "casual competition Q'er"... After all $100 entry fee for a good time and having friends come out may not be that bad, you bump it up to $300 and I dont think they would be so gun-ho about it. But then again that may be a positive from some points, you'd have better competition and alot more serious competion Q'ers rather than those just there for the party.
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby cj8tk » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:10 pm

I'd be curious to see how much the software and all the equipment you would need to implement a system like kcbs uses for their scoring system would cost. I would guess the cost would be way more than most us think. How many of us would be willing to help raise the funds to do this. Also I believe it would be it would be years and years before you would have 90 to 100% certified judges at Texas contest. I'm not saying I would not like to have a scoring system like kcbs. It just seems it would take a ton of money to get it done.
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby RangerJ » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:00 pm

jtilk wrote:
This may not apply to everyone, but I can say that alot of the cookoffs I attend down this way are also big parties for some, Friday night it's all about drinkin' and entertaining, while Saturday is about the competition. While increasing the entry fee may increase the pay out, I think it would eliminate the "casual competition Q'er"... After all $100 entry fee for a good time and having friends come out may not be that bad, you bump it up to $300 and I dont think they would be so gun-ho about it. But then again that may be a positive from some points, you'd have better competition and alot more serious competion Q'ers rather than those just there for the party.


You don't ever want to take the fun out of it but I agree with your point in theory. Folks are going to have a good time, I have no issues with that. The organizer has to determine if there is some type of regulation for the party.

In AZ, they asked.."quiet side or loud side". Its not like we were that far apart but half the cook was racking out about midnight, the rest was whooping it up till the sun came up. I will say the last IBCA cook I did, folks were doing shots and playing guitar until the sun came up. I have no real issues with that, just wish they were not right next door.

Texas cook offs are an EVENT. Not going to change and I don't want to change it. For some, its an annual company party, good for them let it go. I don't want to eliminate the casual Q'uer. I want them there, I was them at one time. But to your point I did not cut and paste, I also want them to know why they did good or why they did bad.
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby RangerJ » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:04 pm

cj8tk wrote:I'd be curious to see how much the software and all the equipment you would need to implement a system like kcbs uses for their scoring system would cost. I would guess the cost would be way more than most us think. How many of us would be willing to help raise the funds to do this. Also I believe it would be it would be years and years before you would have 90 to 100% certified judges at Texas contest. I'm not saying I would not like to have a scoring system like kcbs. It just seems it would take a ton of money to get it done.


Yep, I've wondered the cost to implement the software myself. CBJ's, thats a great plan, but I think you could home grow that over time.

Again, my intent here is not to knock what is in place. I was curious, if more KCBS here, would folks cook them?
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Re: KCBS in Texas

Postby Hotcold61 » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:08 am

I myself would like to maybe one day cook a kcbs cookoff, but i don't think that is something that I would want to get into as my primary cooking. As far has having certified judges in Texas that would be nice. But in Texas there are over 300-400 sanctioned events each year. Sometimes there are more cookoffs in one weekend in Texas than there are in the whole United States in kcbs. We have a hard enough time getting enough head judges for these events much less a bunch of certified judges to set down and eat. Alot of our cookoffs may only have 10-15 cookers some 100-200 cookers. As some have posted they don't like this and they don't like that. But as others have posted rules are rules. It is what it is. I do believe kcbs can have a bigger presence in Texas but it will be secondary to other sanctioning bodies. As for paying $300 entry fees no thank you. I don't have an RV or camper, don't need water(bring my own) don't need electricity (alot of good friends that will let you borrow a plug for electric knife). But when you start figuring in your meat, seasoning, foil, wood,charcoal, fuel etc. that $300 becomes $400-500. Some people have plenty of money and can afford these fees, but some can't, times are tough. I'll stick with IBCA-LSBS AND BE PROUD TO BE A MEMBER OF BOTH. As or people partying well once again it is what it is. I've met alot of good friends and cookers through a few beers and shots. I'll shut up now :shock:
Last edited by Hotcold61 on Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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