Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby Arto » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:54 am

Looks like a nice smoker, good look with it and happy eating!
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby slamkeys » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:30 am

I just ran across a new video from February this year that highlights a Horizon 30" Marshal smoker. It's relevant to the Yoder discussion because this guy owns 2 big Yoders, 1 LSG, and the Horizon, which he says is "one of my favorite smokers," and "it seems to draw pretty well." He compares the build quality of the smokers and dings Horizon for late delivery and poor packaging for shipping, but then talks about how awfully the Yoders backdraft. This proves once again, it isn't pretty welds that make a good cooker - it's the design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlhAozEREVA

At about 5:30 into the video, he says the following:
This is one of 4 smokers that I have. This is a Horizon (30").

I've got a Durango 24" underneath that tarp over there. It's a Yoder Durango 24". I have a Yoder Frontiersman as well, and a Lone Star Grillz vertical offset. And this is, as far as construction is concerned, the most crude of the smokers. The welds on the Yoders and Lone Star Grillz are extraordinary. Not that this is bad, but it's just not quite as refined. These guys are a little slap shot dealing with and everything. It took quite a bit longer to get the cooker than promised. It was poorly packaged for shipping when they sent it freight. It arrived badly damaged so it had to go back to the manufacturer for a lot of repairs. When it showed up again it was in great shape.

But, all that aside, this is probably the best cooking smoker I have. The firebox is set a little bit lower on this than on the Yoders. The Yoders backdraft awfully, and whenever you open the door you just get a face full of smoke. And they cook well, but this one's just a lot nicer to use.

Horizon 30" Marshal:
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby freddie987 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:44 am

slamkeys wrote:I just ran across a new video from February this year that highlights a Horizon 30" Marshal smoker. It's relevant to the Yoder discussion because this guy owns 2 big Yoders, 1 LSG, and the Horizon, which he says is "one of my favorite smokers," and "it seems to draw pretty well." He compares the build quality of the smokers and dings Horizon for late delivery and poor packaging for shipping, but then talks about how awfully the Yoders backdraft. This proves once again, it isn't pretty welds that make a good cooker - it's the design.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlhAozEREVA[/url]

At about 5:30 into the video, he says the following:
This is one of 4 smokers that I have. This is a Horizon (30").

I've got a Durango 24" underneath that tarp over there. It's a Yoder Durango 24". I have a Yoder Frontiersman as well, and a Lone Star Grillz vertical offset. And this is, as far as construction is concerned, the most crude of the smokers. The welds on the Yoders and Lone Star Grillz are extraordinary. Not that this is bad, but it's just not quite as refined. These guys are a little slap shot dealing with and everything. It took quite a bit longer to get the cooker than promised. It was poorly packaged for shipping when they sent it freight. It arrived badly damaged so it had to go back to the manufacturer for a lot of repairs. When it showed up again it was in great shape.

But, all that aside, this is probably the best cooking smoker I have. The firebox is set a little bit lower on this than on the Yoders. The Yoders backdraft awfully, and whenever you open the door you just get a face full of smoke. And they cook well, but this one's just a lot nicer to use.

Horizon 30" Marshal:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/y4iXZpp.jpg[/img]



Have a look at 5:10 into the video. That corner of the cook chamber door is sitting so far off the cooker body that you wouldn’t need to open the door to remove the brisket you could just slide the brisket through that door gap. That workmanship would drive me crazy
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby Dirty Dawg » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:21 pm

Annnnnd once again, Slamkeys demonstrates he hates Yoder smoker.

Just couldn’t let be be, could you? No, in fact, just no.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby slamkeys » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:51 pm

freddie987 wrote:Have a look at 5:10 into the video. That corner of the cook chamber door is sitting so far off the cooker body that you wouldn’t need to open the door to remove the brisket you could just slide the brisket through that door gap. That workmanship would drive me crazy

Haha - yeah it looks bent. He did say the thing was terribly damaged in shipping, and it was "the most crude" of his smokers, but that's the whole point: despite all the Horizon's quality issues, he would still prefer to cook on it because it works right. The Yoder Durango, with all it's beautiful welds, is sitting over there under a tarp gathering dust. The fact that he has experience with all 4 smokers is what interested me because my experience is limited to the Wichita. If I had a Horizon of my own to compare to the Yoder I might never have pursued modifications at all. I would have put a tarp over the Wichita and cooked with the Horizon instead.

That's not to say all Yoder smokers are perfect though. I documented my Wichita quality issues, and the first thing that irritated me was the fit of the cooking chamber and firebox doors. I was able to fit 4 credit cards under the gap on my cooking chamber door, and it leaked like a sieve until I added gaskets.
Image

I tried to figure out the cause of the door gaps, and discovered there was a minor "bow" in the openings that resulted from the metal springing outward after the door cuts were made. There is nothing welded to the inner side of the pipe to prevent this bowing, so I would guess it tends to get worse as the door openings get wider.

This illustration is exaggerated, but demonstrates what I'm talking about. I used a 2 foot level to check for high spots, and both the cooker opening and the firebox opening had similar bowing, and both leaked heavily at the corners.
Image

Examples of how the metal springs outward in the door openings and causes fit issues for the doors. I wonder why you couldn't weld something inside the openings to keep those edges straight. It would be a lot easier than trying to create a curved door. My guess is nobody does it because it would sacrifice some of the opening space.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby slamkeys » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:57 pm

Dirty Dawg wrote:Annnnnd once again, Slamkeys demonstrates he hates Yoder smoker.

Just couldn’t let be be, could you? No, in fact, just no.
It's hard to resist when Joe Phillips acted as if he never heard a single complaint before now. This latest video is just another example of a Yoder customer who "learned his cookers" and ultimately learned the Yoders have awful backdraft issues, but I'd bet he never called Yoder and voiced his concern. In the eyes of Yoder, he's just another satisfied customer with no complaints.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby Dirty Dawg » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:07 pm

Do you ever cook on that thing or do you spend your time polishing, cleaning, scrutinizing and designing improvements? This smoker clearly falls short of your expectations, why not sell it and move on to something more to your liking? Seems a more sensible approach than spending more than a year complaining.

For the record, I’m left handed and can assure you there’s hardly a product on the market that I wouldn’t modify to suit me, but I have neither the time or energy to bother with it. I just adapt to the design and get along with my business.

At the end of the day, offset cookers are no more than two steel pipes welded together with a couple doors and a couple of vents; in other words, a fairly simple device. I’ve been through a number of cookers now and can say with certainty that no two are alike. The trick is to get to know your cooker. Easy as that. Get to know your cooker and get to work. If you aren’t satisfied with the draw, open the door. Hey, if it’s good enough for Aaron Franklin, it’s good enough for me.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby Dirty Dawg » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:08 pm

And so you know, I’ve made a vow to never let yours be the sole voice on this page again. I let it go too long and am taking my thread back.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby Dirty Dawg » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:28 pm

In the eyes of Yoder, he's just another satisfied customer with no complaints.


Just as you are another dissatisfied customer; the difference is you’ve decided to claim the soapbox as your own. I see this no differently than negative reviews on any other platform, they typically garner far more attention than they’ve a right to claim and are often posted by someone with an axe to grind.

Time to burry the hatchet or, at the very least, start hacking away on your own Yoder Sucks thread.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby slamkeys » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:28 pm

Dirty Dawg wrote:Just as you are another dissatisfied customer; the difference is you’ve decided to claim the soapbox as your own. I see this no differently than negative reviews on any other platform, they typically garner far more attention than they’ve a right to claim and are often posted by someone with an axe to grind.
But, honest feedback (even when negative) is the core of any review system, and Yoder has absolutely rejected any negative feedback on their store front. It's 5 out of 5 stars or the feedback is rejected. That isn't right, and forces people to leave feedback elsewhere or not be heard. I don't agree that negative feedback gets more attention. I typically see many more positive reviews for good products and they always outweigh a couple of disgruntled customers. However, when a product has real issues you'll see higher numbers of negative reviews, and that is valuable feedback that can eventually lead to product improvements when the company realizes their product doesn't meet expectations.

I'm left handed myself, and so is my wife and our 2 boys. Lots of lefties over here, and I've definitely learned to adapt to right-handed products over the years. I had to use a right-handed violin in school, and then took up right-handed guitar. I also use right-handed scissors, computer mouse, and shotguns or rifles (tricky because I shoot lefty and the shells eject in front of my face). Nobody is in their right mind at my house.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby slamkeys » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:43 pm

Dirty Dawg wrote:Do you ever cook on that thing or do you spend your time polishing, cleaning, scrutinizing and designing improvements?
I've been working 7 day weeks for several months now so I haven't had any time for long cooks, but hopefully I'll get some free time after we finish our current firmware release next month. I do enjoy cooking on it now that I can focus on cooking. Anyone how owns a steel smoker knows there is some TLC involved unless you want to end up with a rusted out hunk of metal. The whole process involves quite a bit of planning and work, so you don't take it on lightly - it's an investment of your time. That reminds me, I need to order some more Yoder touch-up paint.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby Dirty Dawg » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:36 pm

But, honest feedback (even when negative) is the core of any review system, and Yoder has absolutely rejected any negative feedback on their store front. It's 5 out of 5 stars or the feedback is rejected. That isn't right, and forces people to leave feedback elsewhere or not be heard. I don't agree that negative feedback gets more attention. I typically see many more positive reviews for good products and they always outweigh a couple of disgruntled customers. However, when a product has real issues you'll see higher numbers of negative reviews, and that is valuable feedback that can eventually lead to product improvements when the company realizes their product doesn't meet expectations.

I'm left handed myself, and so is my wife and our 2 boys. Lots of lefties over here, and I've definitely learned to adapt to right-handed products over the years. I had to use a right-handed violin in school, and then took up right-handed guitar. I also use right-handed scissors, computer mouse, and shotguns or rifles (tricky because I shoot lefty and the shells eject in front of my face). Nobody is in their right mind at my house.


So, you feel like Yoder has slighted you and has deceived hundreds, likely thousands, of their customers? Maybe Yoder isn’t the problem. Maybe it’s time to admit you have a problem with Yoder, beyond how they designed their cookers? Again, if in your estimation it’s a faulty product why not sell it in favor of a design that better meets your expectations rather than bitching about it for more a year? To say negative comments are outweighed by positive comments is disingenuous. Regardless of the number overwhelmingly positive reviews, relentless, continued attacks on any product plant seeds of doubt in prospective customer’s minds (and I believe that is your end goal.) In support of my observation, I’ll cite a number of posts I’ve seen that reference this thread and the one post that ultimately brought me back here to defend it.

Seriously, this was posted to mark a joyful moment in my life but, largely due to your incessant complaining and questioning , it has become something entirely unsavory in my opinion. I can only hope future visitors to this thread read the first few pages, skip the drivel in the middle and land here to discover that those disgruntled customers, regardless of how vigorously pound their chests or gnash their teeth, are in the minority.

Give it a rest.

As for firearms, over-under will cure your handedness issues when it comes to shotguns, top or bottom eject lever-action when it comes to rifles. No one should have to deal with hot brass ejecting across their face.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby slamkeys » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:48 am

Dirty Dawg wrote:So, you feel like Yoder has slighted you and has deceived hundreds, likely thousands, of their customers? Maybe Yoder isn’t the problem. Maybe it’s time to admit you have a problem with Yoder, beyond how they designed their cookers?
Aside from saying Yoder isn't part of the problem, that's a very good synopsis of what has evolved during the discussion here, and nobody has tried to hide their feelings. What started out as a personal discovery of quality and performance issues, led to a host of past and present customers chiming in via posts and PMs here and on other forums, and eventually an astonishing level of cover-up by Yoder via bizarre training videos, blaming customers, deleting or rejecting customer feedback, and finally some public statements about listening to customers and making plans for improvements that ultimately fizzled and ended with a renewed campaign led by Yoder Herb stating that nothing will change because their cookers work as designed. In addition, all inquiries about issues on their forum are now being handled via telephone so there are no public discussions for potential buyers to read.

The fact that you can overlook all that and find fault with the messengers (I'm not alone in this) is disheartening. Doesn't it bother you at all that the guy in the last video spent near $15,000 on 2 Yoder smokers only to discover they had awful backdraft issues? Remember, he came to that conclusion with no help from me. What about the guy who needs a fan to keep his Kingman flowing? He also came up with that idea on his own. I'll bet they both wish they had known about the backdrafting/smoldering issues before they laid down their cash. These discussions are helpful in my opinion.

I have also expressed many times that I'm looking for a replacement smoker, but I'm sort of waiting for Franklin's new smoker line to be released before I make a decision. If they get rave reviews, then I might just add my name to the waiting list and end up with a smoker that uses an open door for venting - now that would be ironic.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby Dirty Dawg » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:08 pm

Aside from saying Yoder isn't part of the problem, that's a very good synopsis of what has evolved during the discussion here, and nobody has tried to hide their feelings. What started out as a personal discovery of quality and performance issues, led to a host of past and present customers chiming in via posts and PMs here and on other forums, and eventually an astonishing level of cover-up by Yoder via bizarre training videos, blaming customers, deleting or rejecting customer feedback, and finally some public statements about listening to customers and making plans for improvements that ultimately fizzled and ended with a renewed campaign led by Yoder Herb stating that nothing will change because their cookers work as designed. In addition, all inquiries about issues on their forum are now being handled via telephone so there are no public discussions for potential buyers to read.

The fact that you can overlook all that and find fault with the messengers (I'm not alone in this) is disheartening. Doesn't it bother you at all that the guy in the last video spent near $15,000 on 2 Yoder smokers only to discover they had awful backdraft issues? Remember, he came to that conclusion with no help from me. What about the guy who needs a fan to keep his Kingman flowing? He also came up with that idea on his own. I'll bet they both wish they had known about the backdrafting/smoldering issues before they laid down their cash. These discussions are helpful in my opinion.

I have also expressed many times that I'm looking for a replacement smoker, but I'm sort of waiting for Franklin's new smoker line to be released before I make a decision. If they get rave reviews, then I might just add my name to the waiting list and end up with a smoker that uses an open door for venting - now that would be ironic.


Ah, the Great Yoder Conspiracy, I might have guessed. Well, at least you own it, I give you that credit. Clearly your experience and mine are considerably different but from my observation that is more a reflection of how we approach cooking than the performance of our cookers. And, while I’ve seen some who agree with you (but let’s be honest here, YOU are the primary messenger) my money says there are exponentially more who do not, they just aren’t here daily rallying the troops to support the crusade. Of course, it’s possible Yoder themselves are writing all their own five star reviews. That must be what’s happening. Surely.

I honestly have no sympathy for anyone who complains about how their smokers draft and yet refuses to open the dang firebox door. I’ve got $10K in my trailer at this point and guess what? I sometimes cook with the door open! Astonishing, I know.

To suggest that your intention is to be helpful is again disingenuous. You’ve admitted to feeling slighted and ignored by Yoder. Given that, your actions appear clearly aimed at disparaging Yoder and sullying their reputation. My apologies if that sounds harsh, but it’s safe to say your motivation here is not altruistic.

Lastly, if you are waiting on Franklin to roll out his cookers, you may find the wait and the cost disagreeable. I bid on one of his backyard prototypes two years ago but dropped out of the bidding with the selling price eventually breaking $8K. And of course, ironically, should you buy one and then proceed to obsess about how it draws with the door closed, you’ll have no one but yourself to blame.
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Re: Just Bought A Yoder Loaded Wichita

Postby DATsBBQ » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:35 am

Time to move on to something else. Thread locked.
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