first welder

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first welder

Postby Ishaga » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:58 am

I've finally got enough project that require a welder to officially begin looking for a welder to call my own. The problem? I don't (currently) know squat about welding, and I don't want to get a crappy welder that will be useless in the long-term. At the same time, I'm pretty frugal in my tool purchases, and I don't plan on spending more $$$$ that what makes sense for what I plan on doing. (Prefer to keep everything under $300, cheaper if reasonable.)

I don't have a deadline on when I need it, so I plan on just keeping my eyes open for sales or good used equipment. I just need to know what to look for so that I can pull the trigger when I see it.

What I plan on doing is basic repair and fabrication stuff, mostly with some combination of:

Tube steel
Rebar
Fence posts
Sheet metal

Probably the "top end" of what I might do is build a go-kart or something similar.

I don't currently have any handy 240V outlets in my shop or my garage. Are 120V welders sufficient for most work, or am I going to need to upgrade to 240V for a welder that will do good general purpose welding?

How necessary/useful are gas welders (mig/tig) over non-gas welders?

I'm only going to likely use the welder 4-6 times/year. Will the cheaper ($100-300) welders sufficient, or are they crap that will burn up after an afternoon of use?

Are their features I should be looking for?

Are their any good places to find good used welders?

What types of accessories should I buy? Helmet, apron, gloves, clamps, etc. Any recommendations?
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Re: first welder

Postby Chasdev » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:46 am

Mig for sure, as much as you can afford and with shield gas, not coated wire IMHO.
Used rigs scare me, unless you can get a demo to prove it still works well.
110V work well for up to about 1/4 inch so for most BBQ work they are fine.
Instant on helmet, gloves of course, apron, clamps, magnetic levels, cheap chopping wheel/saw..
Buy and read a few books on mig welding.
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Re: first welder

Postby Rambo » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:24 am

Nice response Chas
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Re: first welder

Postby txsmkmstr » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:42 am

Another vote for MIG with shielding gas. Makes quality welds with little spatter. Your price point is a bit stingy especially if you figure in shielding gas option. You can buy your own gas cylinder and have it refilled periodically but I went with the rental option. My calculations show about a 4 year payback period before renting becomes more expensive.

I can personally vouch for the Hobart Handler 140 rig available at Tractor Supply for under 500 bucks. Your gas set-up will run an initial 90 or so (first years rent plus refill) You'll have to add wire to that so again, your price point is low for that level of quality. It operates on 110v and parts are easily found.

One suggestion/recommendation I like to offer is check out your local community college for an Introduction to Welding course. You'll get to play with quality equipment AND learn valuable safety lessons about the whole process. Don't forget the safety glasses at all times.

Welding is a valuable skill and opens up a bunch of options for making stuff. Good luck and keep us posted on what you end up doing.
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Re: first welder

Postby dwilliams35 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:16 pm

The flux core stuff is good for keeping that initial cost down, the welds take just a little more cleanup, but you can about always use that wire then just put a bottle on it to switch to solid wire in the future. I ran FC for years on the “too cheap to buy a bottle” plan until I bit the bullet and got a much bigger welder...

Also, about all the big names sell multivolt machines: you’ll need 220 to get everything out of them they’re capable of, but they’ll run fine on 120..

I’d definitely stay with the real welder manufacturers, instead of house brands or harbor freight, especially on MIGs: just continuity of your consumable parts, plus being able to get them all over the place, dictates that...
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Re: first welder

Postby Chasdev » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:39 pm

To me, brand name or not comes down to how many hours you intend to burn.
I bought a $100 unit 20 years ago and built a shops worth of metal work tables and bars to cover the windows, it worked just fine for the tasks I had and then I sold it off.
I later bought a fancy Hobart square wave tig unit that I barely used and after three years sold it a $800 loss.
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Re: first welder

Postby woodenvisions » Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:51 pm

Hung up my automotive tools long ago but was a mechanic for 20 years.
Worked at an Exhaust Shop for a long time and we had Millermatics running all day, every day.
They were very reliable back then, I would bet they still have a good rep...

Good luck

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Re: first welder

Postby Chasdev » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:06 pm

Miller was and is still the best but they are spendy.
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Re: first welder

Postby woodenvisions » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:13 pm

Chasdev wrote:Miller was and is still the best but they are spendy.
I understand that $ is always an issue I really do. But when it comes to tools like this I would really try to look at it like a Long Term investment especially if you can finance it.
With our ring business I sometimes get drunk just before I take the hit on certain tools, lol.
Hopefully he can find just the right balance between the Yugo and the Maybach.

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Re: first welder

Postby dwilliams35 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:17 am

Chasdev wrote:To me, brand name or not comes down to how many hours you intend to burn.
I bought a $100 unit 20 years ago and built a shops worth of metal work tables and bars to cover the windows, it worked just fine for the tasks I had and then I sold it off.
I later bought a fancy Hobart square wave tig unit that I barely used and after three years sold it a $800 loss.
. I’m not sure how ANYTHING that you paid $100 for can be mentioned in such a comparison to a square wave TIG; did you buy the TIG to build shop tables as well? I’ll generally agree with your premise on about anything else: i’ve Got a load of cheap tools that I know i’ll Use once a decade or so. That being said, , each and every time i’ve used a cut-rate MIG, it’s always been an issue of “well, it’ll weld, I just have to learn to weld better”: then I pick up the stinger on a Lincoln or Miller, and I can instantly, magically weld better.

A caveat here: I haven’t tried the new higher-end harbor freight units, but they’re close to the same budget point as the real deal now, and I still like the idea of not being locked down to one source for consumables and parts.

Hobart is somewhat of a good exception there: they’ve got a lower price point for most configurations than miller or Lincoln, and since they bought Miller, their stuff is often indistinguishable from the blue stuff. Often the same parts numbers, same consumables, just a different paint job.

Stick welders? That bottom end of that is a good exception. Until you get into ac/dc, engine driven, and higher end power supplies, a transformer is a transformer: the venerable Lincoln crackerbox isn’t going to do much different than a cheap stick machine. They’re all just transformers. MIGs are a different playing field entirely.
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Re: first welder

Postby spacetrucker » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:07 pm

Learn to weld first...
learn what TIG, MIG, wire feed, stick, exotic rod, filet weld, and what the various stick numbers mean as decoded. Then you may have enough information to make a decision on what you might want to purchase. You most likely will have more than one type of welder.
visit some reputable welding shops to garner some sources to gain the information you are seeking.
Good luck on your journey.
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Re: first welder

Postby Chasdev » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:23 pm

"I’m not sure how ANYTHING that you paid $100 for can be mentioned in such a comparison to a square wave TIG; did you buy the TIG to build shop tables as well? "

Sorry for my incomplete comments, I hate to hog up a conversation.
I bought the tig to help with fabrication/modification to a Yamaha YZF 750 superbike a customer wanted me to prepair for the Daytona 200 race back in 95.
The point of the statements was (and I admit now, poorly laid out) that the $100 dollar mig worked great, did it's job and did not tie up a ton of money, or present a steep learning cure (as a mig is just about the easiest form of welding known to man).
The fancy tig allowed me to fab a light weight battery box/electronic relay mounting platform and a few other smallish projects, after which I lost my tail on it when I decided to sell it.
Point being that there's no need for him to waste brain cells on which high quality brand to buy if all he's going to do is build one thin wall mild steel smoker.
The worst of the worst will suffice for those needs.
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Re: first welder

Postby Copasspupil » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:54 pm

I own a miller auto set 210. It’s been a few years but it is a mug, does 110/220 volts and works well. The biggest issue you will find is it is never clean enough. Spray with brake cleaner, then use a wheel flap to make the metal shiney weld away. Many you tube videos can help with your welds. Good luck.
Danno

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Custom built smoker named Seal Team
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Re: first welder

Postby dwilliams35 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 pm

Copasspupil wrote:I own a miller auto set 210. It’s been a few years but it is a mug, does 110/220 volts and works well. The biggest issue you will find is it is never clean enough. Spray with brake cleaner, then use a wheel flap to make the metal shiney weld away. Many you tube videos can help with your welds. Good luck.

But whatever you do, don’t use chlorine-based brake cleaner ANYWHERE near a welder. Ever.
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Re: first welder

Postby Copasspupil » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:57 pm

dwilliams35 wrote:
Copasspupil wrote:I own a miller auto set 210. It’s been a few years but it is a mug, does 110/220 volts and works well. The biggest issue you will find is it is never clean enough. Spray with brake cleaner, then use a wheel flap to make the metal shiney weld away. Many you tube videos can help with your welds. Good luck.

But whatever you do, don’t use chlorine-based brake cleaner ANYWHERE near a welder. Ever.


Absolutely. Thanks DWilliams for the added remark.
Danno

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Custom built smoker named Seal Team
Santa Maria Grill names GrumpyD'sBBQ
Weber stainless gas grill when I want to cook a hotdog

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