New TGCBBQ scoring system

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DR.
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New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby DR. » Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:17 pm

I heard it mentioned the other day that the Texas Gulf Coast BBQ Association has a new scoring system "Georgia best"?? I have never cooked in a TGC contest and was winding what the difference in the scoring system is or will be?

Thanks DR
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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby Swamp Donkeyz BBQ » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:53 pm

I've only heard hear say. From what I have heard, the scoring system will be more similar to KCBS/GBA/FBA. I'm sure someone here knows more about it.
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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby k.a.m. » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:41 pm

This is the new scoring system. It is close to the KCBS system.

Each team is assigned a team number by the judging offical. The team number is entered into the
computer for each team. At the chief cook's meeting, each team is handed a set of containers with
their team name on them. When the container is turned in, the container is taken to a table with a set
of labels with a matching team name and team number. The team name label is pulled, the box is
marked with a team's number and the box is sent to a table for judging and scoring. The scoring is a
blind scoring system. The judges do not know who the team is, they only have a team number on each
box.
Team Calculations
Each score card is entered by Table & Judge for each Team Number on the score card . The computer
calculates the total scores. When all score cards are entered, a report is printed that lists all category
calculations. The report generates a list with the team names and scores from the highest score to the
lowest score. At the end of awards, each team can pick up their own event score report.
The scoring system uses 6 judges per table and an average of 6 products per table. Judges may judge
back to back competitions because of the lower number of products being set in front of a judge.
The product is judged on 3 criteria:
Taste at 55% (.55%)
Tenderness at 28.5% (.285%)
Appearance at 16.5% ( 165%)
= 100%
Scoring is 60 – 100 points, whole numbers, no fractions or decimals are used. The judges must choose
which is the best product per criteria, ranking them first to last. The score card for each judge will
contain no ties in each of the criteria. If anyone is scored under 80 points for any criteria, the judge
will write why the score is lower than 80 points. The remarks will be listed on a seperate sheet from
the score cards.
This score card example is for one team, and lists how the judges results would be listed on the team
score:
Category Traits Judge 1 Judge 2 Judge 3 Judge 4 Judge 5 Judge 6
Ribs Appearance 97 98 100 98 94* 100
Team 3 Taste 98 100 100 98 99 96*
Tenderness 98 100 99 97* 99 98
97.835 99.670 99.715 70.700 82.665 44.430
Team 3 Total = 495.015
A low score in each criteria is thrown out. The low score thrown out is marked with an asterisk on the
score sheet. The low score may be from different judges as referenced above. The average on the
score card is for 5 judges as 1 score in each category is thrown out.
At the end of awards, each team can pick up their own event score report. The cooker of the year
points will remain the same at 10 points for first place, down to 1 point for 10th place.
Always remember slow and steady wins the race.

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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby Swamp Donkeyz BBQ » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:38 pm

Thanks for sharing Brother!
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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby Okie Sawbones » Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:25 pm

TGC

Taste at 55%
Tenderness at 28.5%
Appearance at 16.5%

KCBS

Taste – 57.4%
Tenderness - 28.6%
Appearance - 14%

Not much difference.
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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby k.a.m. » Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:36 am

Swamp Donkeyz BBQ wrote:Thanks for sharing Brother!

You are very welcome Brother. :D
While I have not cooked under the new scoring yet it has been used several times with better results in each cook off. It is a work in progress but I feel it is a direction well worth taking.
Always remember slow and steady wins the race.

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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby Big Ed » Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:38 am

I'm sure it'll be coming to IBCA in the near future.


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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby bruno994 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:50 am

Sounds like a winner to me. I've been asking for years why we don't use a system that is close to the KCBS.
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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby Okie Sawbones » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:01 pm

bruno994 wrote:Sounds like a winner to me. I've been asking for years why we don't use a system that is close to the KCBS.


I've been asking myself why IBCA doesn't use certified judges.
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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby k.a.m. » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:39 pm

Okie Sawbones wrote:
bruno994 wrote:Sounds like a winner to me. I've been asking for years why we don't use a system that is close to the KCBS.


I've been asking myself why IBCA doesn't use certified judges.

TGCBBQ still uses public judges Okie Sawbones. They have table judges that hand out the food and explain the process to them.
Always remember slow and steady wins the race.

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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby Okie Sawbones » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:38 pm

k.a.m. wrote:
Okie Sawbones wrote:
bruno994 wrote:Sounds like a winner to me. I've been asking for years why we don't use a system that is close to the KCBS.


I've been asking myself why IBCA doesn't use certified judges.

TGCBBQ still uses public judges Okie Sawbones. They have table judges that hand out the food and explain the process to them.


'Public Judges' -- As a cooking team, I would not like this. There are eaters and there are judges. Hey Bubba, wanna judge some BBQ? Shore! I'm hungry.

I would hate to put so much time, money, and effort into a competition, to have my food judged by Bubba. Just my two cents. :?
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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby bruno994 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:09 am

'Public Judges' -- As a cooking team, I would not like this. There are eaters and there are judges. Hey Bubba, wanna judge some BBQ? Shore! I'm hungry.

I would hate to put so much time, money, and effort into a competition, to have my food judged by Bubba. Just my two cents.

And that my friends, is my biggest problem with the KCBS system, certified judges...so only certified judges know what good (I mean great) BBQ is? I think not. The only thing a certified judge may know more about than the off the street "Bubba" would be tenderness standards, which are set by KCBS and only used in KCBS events anyway. Other than that, taste and appearance can be judged by anyone who can see and eat. If the whole KCBS system of certified judges was perfect, then we would not read on other forums about such things as "Table of Death" and "Angel Tables", bad scoring can happen anywhere, with any system. I knew what good BBQ was before I started cooking competitively, but now I have a whole other expectation when I pay for BBQ than I did 4 years ago, which is why when I go out to eat, it's typically not BBQ. My applauding of the scoring system change is for the fact that all 3 criteria are being recognized finally instead of one cumulative number, not to mention that this will eliminate the need for first, second and final tables, which should speed up the awards and allow cook teams to get back home earlier than dark thirty on a Saturday night. Just my .02...
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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby Okie Sawbones » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:36 am

'...so only certified judges know what good (I mean great) BBQ is?'

No one said that. You are injecting your personal bias here. Sure, there are good judges and bad judges, just as there are in any type of judging. But judges who are off the wall can be tracked with the computer scoring program. These judges don't get invited back too often from my experience.

'Other than that, taste and appearance can be judged by anyone who can see and eat.'

Not true. A lot of people do not taste fire control problems; do not know what over sauced is or saucing to cover flaws; don't know the effort a team goes through to put in sliced, chopped and pulled pork in a box; don't know the effort to put in six matching chicken thighs or ribs; never see the hair/foil/toothpick in the box; try to call raw chicken when they see pink next to the bone; and on and on.

But hey, it is your BBQ, your team, so you are free to enter wherever you want. Don't like KCBS rules, then don't enter. There is a reason the Kansas City Barbecue Society (KCBS) is the largest sanctioning body in BBQ.
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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby bruno994 » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:12 pm

And I do believe IBCA is the second largest...I don't have any hard numbers but I'm pretty sure they have over 200 sanctioned events each year, not too bad for a group that is mainly based in Texas. My point was that certified judges are being told what good BBQ is to an extent, where as non-certified, or "Bubba" as you refer to, just know what they like to eat. Everyone has different preferences, why should that not be a plus for the IBCA? I like mine a bit on the spicy side, but I know that in a competition you need to keep it more middle of the road, your box hits a table of older folks, spicy may kill you.
As far as saucing to cover up short comings, that only occurs in KCBS, as the IBCA does not allow any saucing once the meat is in the box, all sauced must be cooked on (See IBCA Rule #9, Judging Tray Contents). So in most examples, IBCA comps are a true meat contest, not sauce or garnish or how uniform your chicken thigh is.
Personally I don't want a judge to take into consideration the time and effort I spent in making my turn in box or how much money I spent, I want it to be judged on it's end result and quality. Don't give me a 7 because I worked hard, if I deserve a 5, then give me a 5, when I hit my marks, then give me a 9 becuase my food was worthy of it. And you are right, if you have to use sauce to cover up the quality or lack of quality with your meat, something just ain't right.
I'm sure I have probably not been real clear, but in no way am I knocking the KCBS system or those who compete in its' events. I would probably do some if the closest one wasn't 2 1/2 hours away, but to knock the IBCA because it has Joe Q Public judging is just not fair. I have wanted a better scoring system than the old 1-10 for several years and the TGCBCA is pioneering this in Texas. Hooray for them and those of us cooks who get to compete under those rules.
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Re: New TGCBBQ scoring system

Postby Finatic » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:30 pm

bruno994 wrote:'Public Judges' -- As a cooking team, I would not like this. There are eaters and there are judges. Hey Bubba, wanna judge some BBQ? Shore! I'm hungry.

I would hate to put so much time, money, and effort into a competition, to have my food judged by Bubba. Just my two cents.

And that my friends, is my biggest problem with the KCBS system, certified judges...so only certified judges know what good (I mean great) BBQ is? I think not. The only thing a certified judge may know more about than the off the street "Bubba" would be tenderness standards, which are set by KCBS and only used in KCBS events anyway. Other than that, taste and appearance can be judged by anyone who can see and eat. If the whole KCBS system of certified judges was perfect, then we would not read on other forums about such things as "Table of Death" and "Angel Tables", bad scoring can happen anywhere, with any system. I knew what good BBQ was before I started cooking competitively, but now I have a whole other expectation when I pay for BBQ than I did 4 years ago, which is why when I go out to eat, it's typically not BBQ. My applauding of the scoring system change is for the fact that all 3 criteria are being recognized finally instead of one cumulative number, not to mention that this will eliminate the need for first, second and final tables, which should speed up the awards and allow cook teams to get back home earlier than dark thirty on a Saturday night. Just my .02...


Bruno994. I hear what you're saying. Many folks who judge comps do know what great barbecue is. However I believe there are a number of folks judging who have no clue what great barbecue is. I've judged several IBCA & LSBS comps. Each time I've had someone close to me making comments that clearly show they have no clue what they are looking for. I had someone next to me once call the head judge over to the table because she saw "pink" meat on her rib. After the judge explained that was a smoke ring she said "oh, ok". Another time someone at my table asked for barbecue sauce when a chicken entry didn't have any sauce. I'm sure this doesn't happen all the time but every time I've judged I was amazed at the knowledge of some of the judges.

I love that new scoring system. Thanks K.A.M. for providing that! Much better system (IMHO) than LSBS & IBCA. I think it'll take a lot of public input to get either of these two to change. :dont:

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