KCBS in Texas

[JTB]

I have cooked in two KCBS events, it was the Bedford Blues Fest and we attened the event 2 years in a row. I was frustrated at the KCBS scoring system the first year and we got out butts handed to us but was able to take the scoring information provided and do some research.... Because we had a much better idea of how the scoring system worked we returned the following year (this year) and was able to take Grand Champion. I can see positives and negatives to all of the sanctions to be honest. I grew up in Texas so Texas style Q is what I do, athough, I do enjoy the challenge of changing things up, and learning the KCBS style only added to the skill set of myself as well as my entire team. I guess its all about how you look at it?? To me, its an opportunity to improve. At the end of the day, its all about good BBQ and putting smiles on peoples faces....

[Bigoar]

I just went to Meridian and they had a board with the unofficial results down to quarter finals,so if they can basically place down that far why couldn't do that everywhere? The scores where not posted but it could be posted for each ticket. What would be so hard about that? This would give you a way to see how you stood agains the rest of the cooks in each meat. Most judges use a computer to add the points that match the ticket to place in order.
The subject of trainned judges would be great on the stand point of consistancy but that won't happen very fast. Most judges do the best they can of being fair. I 'm guessing there is still a difference with trained judges scores in different regions across the country,so you still would need to cook to fit where you are cooking.My personal goal is to cook a better product everytime I go.Sure it would be nice if the judges were the same all over but they are not,so look at it as a challenge to make little adjustments to maybe place better.
Entry fees don't have to jump bunch to make payouts better.A 50 or 60 buck increase probably would not stop the party cooks from showing up,but would sure help payouts.
The main thing is go have meet people ,and enjoy life! If you are after the big money only go to the big cookoffs where the money is better.
I look forward to cooking in my first KCBS someday ,but for now I will keep getting more consistant with my cooking hopefully will be ready to do well when the time comes.

[Que'a Syde]

kcbs is coming..its hard ot argue with success..i will be cooking my first texas event in january..the smoking aces or w/e..Id prefer kcbs cause the cooks are always consistant with turnin times, judging is usualy consistant, and as said b4 the scoring system is cool..im looking forward to more kcbs events in tx..I will Be in bedford again this year as well as cooking in Slidell..im also debating about a couple to judge at this year as well.. GO KCBS!!! oh Im also a BIG mbn guy and as soon as i get my whole hog cooker ill be doing those as well...well..that and when someone wants to teach me whole hog...lol....

[mw]

I too, am a fan of kcbs sanctioned events. IMO, the reason there are not more in TX is because kcbs sanctioning fees can be very expensive. For up to 50 teams, it can cost $950 just for kcbs fees. Not including the reps travel, ground transportation, lodging and meals, x2. (there is a minimum of 2 reps at each contest). The more teams, the more the charge and more reps that are required.

Big sponsorship is a must just to pay the cost of the reps, computer use, etc, not to mention the prize $$. Since TX has at least 4 other sanctioning bodies that will sanction a contest for a very low cost, that is probably one reason that makes kcbs less attractive to promoters in our area.
Just my .02

[RangerJ]

I too, am a fan of kcbs sanctioned events. IMO, the reason there are not more in TX is because kcbs sanctioning fees can be very expensive. For up to 50 teams, it can cost $950 just for kcbs fees. Not including the reps travel, ground transportation, lodging and meals, x2. (there is a minimum of 2 reps at each contest). The more teams, the more the charge and more reps that are required.

Big sponsorship is a must just to pay the cost of the reps, computer use, etc, not to mention the prize $$. Since TX has at least 4 other sanctioning bodies that will sanction a contest for a very low cost, that is probably one reason that makes kcbs less attractive to promoters in our area.
Just my .02

Good Intel here, thanks for the input.

Since there is an event in the Dallas area, I have thought about trying to organize one here in Houston or perhaps Austin. Which was really the underlying reason for the post.

With regards to sponsorships and again, I've just moved back. I don't think I've seen very many events sponsored, seem to all be a % of payback for prizes. Are there some examples of these?

If, due to costs and "ingrained Texas heritage" the battle would be not worth the effort, I'll keep working on my 1/2 chickens or do a few less IBCA and travel a bit further. Or I might just quit all together, which happens about 6 times a year, after I screw up a meat category.

[Gomeat]

I completely agree with Ranger, Redneck, Larry and Chris. KCBS is a great system that has been developed nationwide and works. They do cost more, but pay out more. This can't be a problem just in TX, they have no problem filling their contests in all the other states, I don't think the cost will be a big deal.

They do have better judging procedures, certified judges and published standards of what is expected of you to turn in. Yea, I don't like the garnish either but like Redneck said you get used to it after a while. BTW, LSBS has to get big props for Meridian. It was the best organized Texas BBQ event and award ceremony I've ever been to, good job.

But what about the style of BBQ. I think KCBS is coming and will eventually dominate the TX bbq scene. But what about the Texas style of brisket and ribs and "no sauce"? I don't want to see that lost. It would be great if KCBS would bring their rules and structure but have a set of standards for Texas BBQ (not Kansas City style). OR one of the Texas bbq orgs adopt their scoring and judging system.

And about the casual and beginner qrs. Has anyone ever thought about a ProAm bbq? If you are a beginner or want just to have fun and maybe host your company, you pay $50, use current TX rules and win trophies only. If you are a "Pro" you pay more, use KCBS rules and win $$ for the top ten places. But everyone is in the same place and the newbies get to participate and hopefully graduate up to "pros" someday.

[js-tx]

If KCBS is really coming then that's fine, especially if that brings larger payouts. However, looking at their event (history) there doesn't seemt to be a lot of KCBS events in the central/south TX area. So I imagine it will be a gradual thing if it does make it to TX.

[RangerJ]

@gomeat - lots of sauce used in the Lone Star State on both ribs and brisket.

I'd like to believe there would be more events here but as has been mentioned there are 4 solid organizations here in this state with a large following. I don't see them "taking over", but I would like to see a few more within the state. I have no issues with the other two organizations I've cooked in, IBCA, TGCBBA, I just like a scoring system that lets me know if I was good, where I was really good and if I was bad, where I was really bad.

to gomeat's other point, I'd like to see someone adopt the system FBA has. No garnish, any chicken, 1/2 or parts ( I prefer 1/2's) and a scoring system that actually drills down to what table your food landed on.

For those of us that like KCBS, lets hope Sam's liked our state and will be coming back through next year with a few events.

And one more thing, KCBS judging is just as subjective as every other organization, so its far from perfect as you can't eliminate the human factor. However, if I get feed back at every comp, I know if the judges / a judge did not like my profile on that weekend or if consistently they did not like it, which means, I need to change.

For example Sam's Conroe, I had 3 calls and 20 something placed brisket out of 30. I of course said the judges did not know good brisket could not be my cooking.

Bedford, two top 5 calls and thought I should have been top 10 overall. Well, nope and guess what drug me down again? Brisket. Well and apparently, some non tasting judge did not like my chicken either but I digress.. So, now I know I need some brisket work / help. In the local organizations I have no idea why I walk or dont. As I mentioned before, I'll cook whatever is here and be happy with hearing my number if its called. This is certainly not a rant about the organizations here and should not be interpreted as such.

[Gomeat]

@Ranger, sauce comment was a joke. We say no sauce in Texas, but if you're not brushing the sauce on, you're not winning. And from what I heard from the promoters of the Sam's event, they are looking for more venues for KCBS events in TX.

[mw]

From what Sam's represenatives told us at their National event in Bentonville last month, they have plans to add more contests next year. Hopefully, that will bring more kcbs' to TX. IMO, Sam's National could possibly be a better contest than Jack. However, I'm pretty sure they are not looking for a "tradition". I think as long as it benefits them, exposure is good, it will probably continue. No guess how long that could be.

I know,... many will disagree, the Jack is what it is. Most teams want to go to Jack simply because, all qualifying teams can't. No one wants to be "left out".
To get to the Sam's National, a team must earn their way,... all the way,.... and not rely on "the luck of the draw".
Sam's put up some serious prize money, much more than Jack Daniel is willing to, or has to, or has in their budget for the bbq.
Sam's was not in the "hollar", with the atmosphere of Lynchburg, (we were on asphalt, no flooding if it rained, everyone had elect, not just selected few) and we weren't in the middle an old town with a distillary, but still, my opnion is that it has great potential as long as it fits in Sam's program.

[3 star redneck]

I want to agree with you , mw......I agree about the Jack and Sams.....

[n2dabluebbq]

having experience with KCBS in two states, i think what they offer is nice. the price not extreme($225-$250 entries). for that we ended up with ice, water, toilets, electricity, goodie bag. and this and that.anyway, not a huge fan of the garnish but i really liked the printout. even as first timer i was able to look at it and see that i finished neither DAL or GC. not so easily done with other sanctioning bodies. i have done two IBCA comps. first one was easy as i placed in all events.second i lost pretty good and have no clue as to where i stood. only found out i made it to a table or two.
that being said, i feel that the most likely places to accept KCBS in Texas would be the populations with a lot of transplants. places like DFW, Austin and maybe Houston. would i cook in one? sure if the timing was right. but that can be said for any cook as far as i am concerned.
i didn't cook the red river one because in August i had spent money for my son's college. and that entry was like $150 if that. not to mention it is only a couple of hours from me.

[E Town]

It's all about choice. KCBS is another choice.

[RWBTEX]

I have cooked in two KCBS events, it was the Bedford Blues Fest and we attened the event 2 years in a row. I was frustrated at the KCBS scoring system the first year and we got out butts handed to us but was able to take the scoring information provided and do some research.... Because we had a much better idea of how the scoring system worked we returned the following year (this year) and was able to take Grand Champion. I can see positives and negatives to all of the sanctions to be honest. I grew up in Texas so Texas style Q is what I do, athough, I do enjoy the challenge of changing things up, and learning the KCBS style only added to the skill set of myself as well as my entire team. I guess its all about how you look at it?? To me, its an opportunity to improve. At the end of the day, its all about good BBQ and putting smiles on peoples faces....

Very well put JTB.

Have judged a few IBCA'a this year and am now a head judge too. Think its pretty fun now to watch how the winning trays wind up winning but have noticed that in almost every case the good bbq usually always wins, I say usually always because people are still people and flukes do happen at times. As been mentioned most likely all systems have their good points and bad points. What I've seen down here is that at some events you just can seem to find enough people to show up and judge, especially for the earlier turn ins. If you cant get regular folks to just show up how in the world do you get enough of them even certified? I do like the fact that regular folks are used to judge rather than all certified judges who have an exact trained brain wash as to what good BBQ really is. If it was only a certain way then the whole country would be cooking that same way but good bbq is and always has been imo a little different here and a little different there but good food is still good food anywhere and not an exact science of one fits all.
Not not too familiar with the KCBS or FBA systems but what I see on tv is for example that brisket gets sauce painted on both sides of the slices before they go in the box, say what? How can you possibly taste any meat goodnes like that? Are we judging meat or sauce? That part I truly dont understand and I like a little sauce with my brisket like any one else but usually on the side. Its been said that foil is called the Texas crutch and I will suppose that sauce is a crutch for the non Texas folks when its used to that extent. Not criticizing or trying to start an argument here just writing one more point of view and as I stated i'm not too familiar with KCBS so maybe I should read up on it more. As mentioned I look at any and all things as a potential to improve my own cooking. Garnish? what for? Seems a little bummer for me if i lost points because my garnish was not as pretty as the next guys and he beat me even though my food was better, just my thoughts on that.
As near as I can tell the Texas systems and the one who started them all ( I think) IBCA have a pretty good system overall for judging BBQ yes just the meat. Does it need work and is there room for improvement? yes of course they all do and we'll never make everybody happy either way but yes they will all evolve and get better over time. This has been a good thread and we know they read it even some good discussions to hopefully move forward with the sport we all love.

[Que'a Syde]

im not sure what kcbs event uve been to but as far as i know noone Sauces brisket..In a kcbs event its like judgin an event in tx..brisket has to taste like brisket..as for ur statement that not having a trained judges to keep it fresh..A uniform way of looking at bbq doesnt mean it doesnt change from region to region..what a kcbs judge from here vs one that lives in KC or Louisana will have diff views of what brisket or any other entry should be but meeting the minimum criteria isnt a bad thing....The good thing about Using certified judges is they will show up to events to further along their standing as judges and get as much exp as possible by doing as many events as possible. And the misconception of the garnish rules always cracks me up ..alot of kcbs teams use foil on their cooks..so the stigma of it being a crutch is past i would think..im looking forward to cooking a tx event next yr in january..the smokin aces event..so we will see the diff...lol...