L.E.M. Cure

[DATsBBQ]

I've used Morton Tender Quick forever, primarily because I could always find a bag in the supermarket. Not anymore, just another example of "change" I'm not in favor of. Anyway, looked high and low for curing agents I could buy locally and it just wasn't happening.

So I came across a bag of L.E.M. at Bass Pro Shops online. 6.25% Sodium Nitrite. 4oz bag is enough for a 100# of meat, so it should last me a year or so. Only $1.99, but shipping was $5.00 Thinking its like Insta Cure #1.

Anyway, got out the plastic and bought a bag as I have an itch to make some pastrami and I have a Packer that has a 3" thick flat on the skinny end. Could be here by Monday.

So that said, do I have to add extra salt to the Pickle (kosher or pickling -I got both)?

[JamesB]

I don't have an answer for the LEM product, but I can still get TQ down here if you need it... Let me know and I can pick it up and send it to ya!

[JaCK2U2]

I haven't checked their website, but couldn't you order TQ from Morton's?

[DATsBBQ]

King Soopers told me that they can "special order" MTQ for me easy enough. A bag is $8.00...but they used to carry it. They don't even carry canning supplies now! And this from the manager of the new Super Improved Enlarged monster box store! But they got a 5 gallon bins of organic wheat bran and all the pumped up pork you'd ever want!

[ChileFarmer]

Dave, strange you would start a pastrami, I have one going in the smoker tomorrow. And just put one in the brine. Maybe 2 weeks soak. I have never cured one before, sure hope its good. CF
recipe I am using. http://lpoli.50webs.com/index_files/Pastrami.pdf

[DATsBBQ]

The LEM package says 1/4 tsp per pound of meat so it must be different stuff than Insta Cure #1 cause the recipe in your link says 2 TB for a 5# brisket (1 1/4tsp VS 2 TB). The recipe I've used in the past is/was well covered in my pastrami thread last Aug but it is pretty close to yours excepting yours has garlic in the rub -which might be very nice indeed. Looking forward to seeing how yours turns out

[Papa Tom]

Some info on cures:

In the sausage industry the nitrites and nitrates are pre-formulated into products called Prague powder#1 and Prague powder#2. Prague powder #1 contains 6.25% sodium nitrite and 93.75% sodium chloride and is used for the preparation of all cured meats and sausages other than the dry type. Prague powder #2 contains 1 ounce of sodium nitrite (6.25%) and 0.64 ounces sodium nitrate (4.0%) per pound of finished product (the remaining 14.36 ounces is sodium chloride) and is used for the preparation of cured dry sausages. Prague powder #2 should never be used on any product that will be fried at high temperature (eg. bacon) because of the resulting formation of nitrosamines.

When using cure, it is very important to never exceed the recommended amount of 4 ounces of Prague powder #1 in 100 pounds of meat (2.5 g/kg). Equivalently this is 2 teaspoons for 10 pounds. Note that the maximum allowable amount of sodium nitrite and potassium nitrite is governed by regulations and is limited to 0.25 ounces per 100 pounds of chopped meat. Since Prague powder #1 is a 1:15 dilution (in a pound of Prague powder #1 one ounce is sodium nitrite and 15 ounces are common table salt), we get the proper amount at a rate of 4 ounces added to 100 lb (45 kg) of meat.

Sodium nitrate and potassium nitrate are limited to 2.75 ounces per 100 pounds.

Sodium and potassium nitrite are quite toxic to humans with the lethal dose being about 4 grams. As little as 22 mg/kg of body weight can cause death. This is about 2.2 grams for a body mass of 100 kg. Thus, there is enough sodium nitrite in 2 ounces of Prague powder #1 to kill a person.

Morton's Tenderquick is the brand name of another formulation of sodium nitrite, with salt and sugars added. It is not the same concentration as either "Prague powder #1 or #2". Since the amount of nitrite present in a recipe is essential for safety, one cannot take a recipe designed for Prague powder and simply substitute like amounts of such products as Morton's Tenderquick. To do so would invite the risk of botulism poisoning. Similarly, one cannot just substitute Prague powder #1 in place of Morton's Tenderquick. For any such substitutions, one must calculate the exact amount of nitrite required and make the proper adjustments.

OK now some more . When they say that the limit of cure per lb. of meat is 1/4 tsp this is for applications like sausage where the cure is mixed directly into the meat and will all be consumed. For brine curing the concentration of cure must include the meat plus the water in the brine knowing that with a proper cure the concentration in the brine and meat will be equalized. If you follow the recommendation of 1/4 tsp (actually it is 1/5) tsp per lb. of meat in a brine you will not get a proper cure.

Edit: Prague powder # 1 and Cure # 1 and Instacure # 1 are interchangeable they all contain the same ratio of nitrate to salt ditto for the #2 versions.

[Papa Tom]

Good go CF Len Poli knows what he is doing and posts good recipes. Let us know how it turns out. Did you inject?

[DATsBBQ]

Good go CF Len Poli knows what he is doing and posts good recipes. Let us know how it turns out. Did you inject?

Will injecting the pickle be considered the same as adding directly to the meat as in sausage? I plan on injecting as much of the pickle as the hunk of beast will take. This is the first time I'll be using the concentrated stuff

[Papa Tom]

Good go CF Len Poli knows what he is doing and posts good recipes. Let us know how it turns out. Did you inject?

Will injecting the pickle be considered the same as adding directly to the meat as in sausage? I plan on injecting as much of the pickle as the hunk of beast will take. This is the first time I'll be using the concentrated stuff

No it will be the same as brining when you inject you are just speeding up the brining process.

[ChileFarmer]

PT, no injection, just soaking in the frige. The one curing now was 7 pounds brisket flat. So I am going for 14 day cure. CF

[Papa Tom]

That should do it.......

[DATsBBQ]

The LEM arrived, mixing the pickle right now. Going with a 12.5 lb packer which I'll trim to 1/8", a gallon of water, sugar, pickling salt, spices, and 3 oz(?) of pink salt. Plan is to inject and soak in a foodsaver bag for a week to ten days.

EDIT 17 JUL 09. I went with 2 oz of cure (4TB). Chile's link called for 2TB for 5# Brisket and 5# of water for a total of 10#. Since I had 8# of water and 12# of meat it follows(?) that I should double the amount of cure since my total weight was double. Guess we'll find out soon enough.